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IIT, IIM faculty not world-class: Jairam Ramesh
24 May 2011

Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh has slammed the faculty of the country’s premier institutions IITs and IIMs. The minister said that these educational institutions are "not world class" but are "excellent" because of the quality of students only.

"There is hardly any worthwhile research from our IITs. The faculty in the IIT is not world class. It is the students in IITs who are world class. So the IITs and IIMs are excellent because of the quality of students not because of quality of research or faculty," said Ramesh, who is himself an alumni of IIT Mumbai.

Talking about his ministry's decision to have a joint venture with Reliance Industries Limited (RIL) to set up a National Centre for Marine Biodiversity in Jamnagar, Ramesh said the decision was taken as a world class research centre cannot be built in a "Governmental set up" and can never attract young people.

"We cannot build a world class research centre in a Governmental set up. The governmental set up can never attract young people. Never. Let us understand our experience in the last 60 years. Government research institutions can never attract young talent.

"So we want to think differently. We have to think differently, how we are going to organise our research institutions. And this is one way of building PPP," Ramesh said.

"So I have been to Jamnagar and we are in a PPP mode. We are having a joint venture with Reliance to set up a world class national centre for marine biodiversity," he said.

Jamnagar is also the site of India's first marine national park, the Minister said. This would be a new centre that would be focussed exclusively on the conservation of our marine biodiversity, Ramesh said.

Jairam Ramesh has been the Indian Minister of State (Independent Charge) for Environment and Forests since May 2009. He was also a member of the first National Advisory Council, 2006-2008. Ramesh graduated in 1975 from the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay (IIT-B) with a B. Tech. in Mechanical Engineering. In 2001, IIT-B presented him with their Distinguished Alumnus Award.

Between 1975-77 he studied at Carnegie Mellon University's Heinz College and received a Master of Science in Management and public policy. In 1977-78, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology he studied technology policy, economics, engineering, and management, as part of the newly-established inter-disciplinary technology policy programme.

He is a founding member of the Indian School of Business in Hyderabad and is a member of the International Council of the New York-based Asia Society. Ramesh has been an Honorary Fellow of the Institute of Chinese Studies, New Delhi since 2002. Ramesh has been a columnist for leading dailies like the Business Standard, Business Today, The Telegraph, Times of India and India Today.

[Source: Sify]

 

 

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ashokKumar
30 Nov 2011

Though arrived late, Ban's statement says it too well and I fully agree with his factual information. Some changes in our Ph.D. programs can show immediate results. For example let it be compulsory for an engineering ph.d. to solve some live problem of the country. In fact large number of problems of national importance can be given by govt. itself. For solution of some problems enhanced (say two times the normal) ph.d. scholarship can be given to a student. Some problems that come to my mind are
making quality roads, improvement in transport system in big and small cities, groundwater modeling in big and small cities with aim to address the problem of water contamination, increasing rural literacy, providing cheap road for rural transportation, effective population control measures, improving the lot of un-organised labour, giving medical facilities to rural and poor urban sectors etc etc are problems where meaningful local solutions can be given by research sholars. Therefore a pool of problems for various regions of the country should be ready with the funding bodies and capable research scholar should address these problems using the latest tools of analysis and engineering practices available. If we resort to this with proactive attitude, it will give ph.d. a real pat on the back in society as well. Today a ph.D. is only good for teaching in private/ other eng. institutes as Ban rightly said not many jobs/ encouragement are available from industry. I believe that far from making some catchy statements, some serious work needs to be done with visible results. And this is all doable, though fixing a number like 10000 ph.d. etc is not necessary as ph.d. value when noticed by society and the employers, will it self appreciate and earn a much needed respect to it. Today in this counry of 120 crores, how many people really know the value of a ph.d. in engineering, other than that you can become after some time a professor in some institution.

Ban
24 Nov 2011

Here is an example of a minister who was a back bencher and didn't enter IIT with engineering mindset. His statement is utter nonsense and clearly resembles a fact that in India students enters a premium technology institute to become managers/salesman and with no focus on engineering research. Boy engineering is hard, but we all can talk well and therefore can easily fit into the previous categories, and not to mention in Indian system can earn quick money!! This a systematic problem where the government and corporate world failed to setup research infrastructure to support and retain bright students in India . It is only in the last few years a large no. of young faculty pool with highest caliber, who had gone abroad for better education and prospect started returning. It is only now government is putting more money to initiate a research culture. But still there is hardly any input from corporate world. Most people who have posted in this block doesn't realize the fact that a institution can only become world class through research that require exceptionally talented students at graduate levels. This never happens in India just because research is not industry driven. There are hardly 1-2 industries who have a research division others are all in outsourcing business. How can you blame a faculty who had graduated from CalTech, MIT, Stanford and was earning only 30,000 Rs per month and completely de-motivated by a system that didn't have any research culture in existence. By the way, which university/organization in India does better research than IITs at the present scenario? People should admit the fact these institutions are in existence with at least some great teachers and that teaching quality of faculty is much better than premier institutions in US. These faculty can indeed be as per with international faculty if a system is in place in terms of funding and excellent quality research scholars and salary structure. Just a few good undergraduate students don't make out a world-class faculty and institution in any case. At academic level research can only be driven by good students not professors!

san
23 Sep 2011

IITs are providing with world class education watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJuSL96MIkU
link of BBC channel and then comment on it.

Dr. Goutam Ghosh
02 Sep 2011

Though I am not sure about IIM, the statement of Mr. Jairam Ramesh on IIT’s has merit and is largely correct. Yes, barring some percentage, the faculties are certainly not of world class. The name & fame of IIT's are primarily because of their student quality, their selection process and their excellence. Therefore rather than getting annoyed over it, please frame out a truly transparent policy on the selection of faculties and them give the academic & research freedom in line with Harvard or MIT. I don’t understand when IIT students can be selected through a national process, the IAS/IPS/IFS officials can be selected through one national level exam, why IIT can not follow the same. I think this will minimize the regional/institutional influence in the selection process.

Mukund Hambarde
19 Aug 2011

I do not Have any first hand information about teachers in IIT IIM but Hon. Minister Jairam Ramesh using a term "World Class" and commenting negatively is regrettable.
First he should define the term "World Class" How come the class of "world" is superior to "Indian Class" If we are "Indian Class" it is good enough. There is no need to degrade us to "World Class"

Jitendra Kumar
11 Aug 2011

Its good to commet about the facts of the system but its is more imporatant to pointout the persons and their acts behind the problem.

Dr.N.K.Pandey
07 Aug 2011

I don't understand why there is so much of hulla for this statemnent of the Hon;ble Minister Jairam Ramesh that IIt-IIM faculty not world class. IITs take the best talents in the country through one of the toughest competitions in the world IIT JEE. What is the selection process for the faculty in IITs !!!!!!!!! Just a degree from abroad and couple of papers in the journals. As an IIT student at PG and doctorate level I have seen that many of the incapable persons have become faculty at IIT. They are so clever that they would normally shortlist or sideline competent teachers from coming g to IITs from Indian Universities. So we have many elite in IITs without proper skills to teach. Look for the real patents of IITs and the contribution to the Indial Society. Please note I am not talking about contributions to the US and other countries.

ashokkumar
20 Jul 2011

Manoj mentioned a very relevant point. On a very serious note these positions need
1. Minimum qualification 2. Aptitude test 3. Sound Mental Health and 4. Age bar

Dr. Sharma
12 Jul 2011

I don't think that these comments are ever going to be read and possible corrective measures may be taken by the appropriate authorities on apprpriate comments.

No one has denied the past achievements of IITs, but then it must be understood that one can not survive too long by being complacent by its past record. My dear friends, what is fact today is indeed a fact, which has been clearly mentioned by the Hon'ble Minister and a number of comments in this post. Please try to accept the weakness and then by thinking very lucidly, we can achieve much better. Not in this way by feeling hurt and also by not accepting our flaws. It is good that some one has courage to point out such things in our badly ruined and dramatic bureaucratic and political set-up.

Radhakant
11 Jul 2011

IITs are the only institutes representing India in the world Universities rankings. These are the only Indian institutes whose names are in the list of top 200 institutes worldwide. IITs are still lacking world class infrastructures, faculty positions are laying vacant, ... who will raise these issues ? Its easy to criticize someone, so acknowledge their endeavours if u can...

Dr. Sharma
09 Jul 2011

In the interest of both the IITs and the BHU, I request to Hon'ble Minister Mr. Jairam Ramesh to kindly intervene in a concrete manner and show his willingness to improve upon the educational decisions. while deciding the fate of such big institutions like banaras Hindu University and the IITs, the free will of the learned and eminent educationists should not be twisted politically. Time and history will put forth severe questions? Time is still in our hands and we can take control of the situation, provided that HRD ministers are not unreasonable and hasty in making unsavage decisions, which are divisive and politically ill motivated.

manoj kamra
08 Jul 2011

Unfortunately , there is no provision of getting mental health of main decision makers in our country as per NIMHANS reply. For gazetted posts, interview board examines mental capability,retention,decision making,farsightedness etc.

So there should be provision of rigorous mental health examination of HRD minister post as it affects whole country and future generations.

It is hightime to think over annual mental health examination of HRD minister post----otherwise, in every division headquarter, there will be IIT in near future.

Dr. A. Jain
08 Jul 2011

By creation of so many new IITs, they have already lost their genuine aura. There is only one Haravard, one Oxford and one MIT! Further, the conversion of IT, Banaras Hindu University into another IIT is also equally damaging step for both IITs and the IT, Banaras Hindu University. The conversion tactics has already dwindled the high esteem and to be honest, it has killed the erstwhile prestigious University of Roorkee. Now they have already stretched their arms to takeover the It, BHU, which is sure to prove absolutely disastrous in very near future. It is heard that despite the protest made by the respective Vice-Chancellors of the Banaras Hindu University and also shelving the adverse opinion of the IIT council, the government is hell bent on this conversion. The conversion will prove as a great fall out; technically, administratively and academically. The political leadres should stop thrusting their whimsical fantasies, at least on the educational set-up of our country.

On other hand, although not linked with this, has any of the IITs been ever given access to operate in any of the developed countries of the USA, Europe, Canada, Australia and strengthen their quality of education? India needs foreign Universities, though?! How amazing that we are outsourcing our educational front- worst thing to happen in any state.

ashokkumar
04 Jul 2011

If a person is truly world class, then in todays world there are world class institutions with world class salaries and infra structure which are ready to attract such a person. Then why one should join a place which does not meet these requirements. In fact what is required is not to find fault with, but to encourage, motivate and more importantly create an atmosphere where excellence grows. Also to do research where it helps to solve India's problem is far more desirable than to do research with the aim of publishing a paper in a top journal. These top journal reviewers are not interested in assessing the weight of the problem with Indian application scene in mind, but they are always interested in something most recent. This most recent may not be applicable to Indian system, where in many areas we are not at par with the best.

vishal
09 Jun 2011

There is lack of motivation and oppurtunity. One professor with contacts will go and fetch centrally funded projects of worth hundreds of crores of rupee and blindfolds the ministry. Does govt has some directions to search for. Possibly NO, IITs and other Institutions do not know what to do. Professor go on producing garbage for american problems and enrich the designers abroad. We will never improve. Govt. has not statistics for requirement of research, identified areas of eminence, time based planning and goal achievement. Surprisingly our country doesnt have semiconductor manufacturing plants. Few which we have are based on absolute tech. I humbly ask the govt. HOW MANY ENGG. INST ARE THERE, WHAT IS TOTAL FACULTY REQ., HOW MUCH WE HAVE. We are worried out IITs, what about 10000 other pvt college in which indian kids study. AICTE is minting money by granting approval, no college has even 1/10th or reqd faculty. THERE IS NOTHING CALLED EDUCATION POLICY IN INDIA IN TECH EDU. SORRY TO SAY MR. SIBAL THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS INEFFICIENT, RUNS ON INELIGIBLE FACULTY AND PASSOUTS OF COLLEGE DO NOT KNOW TECH AT ALL. KINDLY RECONSIDER WHOLE PLANNING.

anony
07 Jun 2011

Comments about getting information on attempters in M.Tech/Phd reflects the qualify of the students and not faculty. So how does this info relate to the quality of faculty. Further, the mandate o IITs have been undergrad teaching which they have been fulfilling quite well. One should let the institutes know the basis on which they are ranked and rank all the universities based on these common indicators. I am 100% sure that based on the rankings in India IITs would emerge as top institutes..Then one can see the indicators based on which international institutes are ranked and what is that need to be improved rather than passing generalised remarks.

manoj kamra
07 Jun 2011

Under RTI, I have already applied for list of attempters in M.Tech/PhD. Let us pray that IITs will proactively share this information. Except IIT chennai (most reluctant in sharing information), I think will share information within one month and will have complete figure of attempters ADORNING IITs and IITs adorning attempters ------------without placing maximum limit on number of attempts of B.E. for admission in MTech/PhD.

anony
06 Jun 2011

I guess Indian is talking about the new IITs which the government has established in a hurry, You look at any established IITs, you would understand that they are well qualified. Secondly regarding young professors now, would you join at 30,000 pay scale on contract if a post graduate candidates these days is offered a minimum salary of 50,000.

You are not right that PhDs or MTechs are are given several attempts. Please go and do a survey of all educational institutions and then compare. Based on this which institute in India do you think ranks the best? Do you have facts?

People who do not know the nitty gritties of publishing and doing research should not make generalised comments. Just based on one or two cases and one's own experience, cannot jump into general conclusion

manoj kamra
05 Jun 2011

Corruption by such mediocre faculty of IITs needs to be carefully watched. Faculty is ready to give consultancy irrespective of their specialization FOR MINTING MONEY.
For example, In Bikaner ROB to be inaugurated in June 2011 ( having no cross-girder steel in 90 main girders out of total128 girders), IIT chennai offshore engineering Prof. K.Ganesh Babu have given consultancy in a secret manner and declared fit (privately to contractor)------despite no relevant field/specialization.
Such false consultancy by irrelevant experts needs to be discouraged by IITs which is reluctant to disclose in RTI.

This is only tip of the iceberg. Such faculty is ready to give approval of any design.So what type of research can be expected.

Indian
05 Jun 2011

Most of the IIT faculties are not educatd abroad, I have clear cut survey before making a point. Please check again most of the new faculty members, they are all product of IITs (since there boss got Swranajanthi F, Bhatnagar F, JCBF etc. by doing post-doc with European Professors during their sabbatical). How many of them have FRS ? That will tell the truth, leave the jung Fellow of Indian Mangoes......given by our academies, that is a pure politics. Hiring these people students as a faculty members is a big mistake. NOT ALL, but most of them are jung guys (ca. 90%). Are they going to promote Indian science ? I doubt that.

manoj kamra
03 Jun 2011

Mr.Anony have given entirely irrelevant opinion by ignoring bitter facts.The fact is MTech/PhD students of IITs have several attempts in B.E. but IITs have no restriction on such attempts.
With such attempters as researchers,what type of research having global impact have taken place --any body can easily conclude.
So Mr.Anony should not hide his ID and present any excellent research work done by such attemtpers in IITs studying as PhD/MTech.

anony
03 Jun 2011

The comments posted by Indian are not even 1% correct. Please check the webpages of faculty in IITs and you would understand that there is no self breeding in IIts. Most of the faculty in IITs do their Phd abroad or post-doc abroad. There is no single faculty who are under qualified. Regarding the PhD students, the comments are not true. They should have at least two research papers published.

Without a research publcation not even a signle faculty is selected

My request is not to guess things and write only you absolutely know the facts

manoj kamra
01 Jun 2011

Excellent comment made by "indian"---Mr.Kapil Sibal must consider him

Indian
01 Jun 2011

Whatever may be the arguments, the quality of the IITs are going down, that is a fact, there is no doubt about it. Only a few do serious research. Look at the science faculties for example, how many of them regulalry making research impact in a high quality journals ? The answer is < 10, I would say. They only do teaching (but you should ask the students about their teaching). If a teacher is unable to do a high quality research, what he/she can teach except from text books ?

Moreover most of IIT faculty members did their PhD in IITs. Not BTech or atleast a MTech degree. Most of the PhD students, get their PhD degrees without writting a single scientific paper themself and after a quick post-doc they join as a IIT faculty. What One can expect from them ?

Priya
31 May 2011

I understand that people who make statements about quality of IIT and IIM has only partial information and that too making statements without knowing the facts. First of all, the madate of IIT especially is teaching and not research. Second, making a statement that how many Nobel prizes are produced by IITs and IIms is ignorance? Some clarification on this issue. Nobel prize is awarded for doing research in basic science, medicine and economics. IIT is mostly a technology instutute (applied science) and is not supposed to basic research in science, The institute;s which qualify for any such award if at all are institutes like Indian Institute of sciences and tata institute of fundamental research or institute's established with basic mandate of doing research. If at all IITs have to be compared, one should look at the number of patents filed and the industry interactions that they have (for R and D) and not based on nobel prizes won.

It is very saddening to see people commenting on the quality without knowing the basic facts. Before commenting one should look at the motive with which a particular institute is established.

Third one should evolve a clear criteria based on which you rank the institutes or faculty as world class or not. Only if the cirtiera is made clear then one should make this statement. Given the amount of funds pumped to top class institutions in US to India, they become incomparable. In US most of the academic instituttions have industry interactions whereas in India they are far distant. If baselines themselves are very different, we should evolve some normalization process. Further the infrastrucutre and student teacher ratio in IITs is not comparable to other world class institutions. Regarding the quality of the students, it is not that all the students admitted are world class either. I can only admit that they have come to the institute after a rigorous selection process and after hard work. These days with several coaching institutions mushrooming, the students are taught how to crack the exam and get into the system. The quality depends on how they perform after they get in.
Further, as others have pointed out though IITs are autonomous, they are not totally free from government intervention either.

Instead of comparing apples with oranges, we should evolve clear set of criteria and indicators and use these criteria and indicators to rank the Indian universities and institutions. Then while comparing with world class, we should normalize it and then compare. If we donot normalize we underline our own institutions.

Manoj Kumar
30 May 2011

It is unexpected from a senior lawmaker like Jai raam ramesh Ji. Now I guess what is the main reason that he is still a state minister where as less qualified and late arrivals directly given cabinet birth. One should weigh his\her statements by looking the things in holistic manner and it is improper to talk only small bits and pieces and give negative pubicity to some well known bodies run by Govt.
We deal with 200students every day in IIT and we know what kind of potentialities they are having. We also know the faculty here and also at MIT.
But the yardstick through which you see the system in place is faulty. Every year MIT produces more than 20,000 students and certainly not all the guys are Bill Gate or Einsteen or Innovator. Barring a few percent most of the students coming out of that system are doing jobs as that of our student. About Faculty, pl note that all the faculty members of MIT or not the noble laureates, most of them are like other universities in US. You can see in general learning and training environment at these bodies are very sound and academic rigour is praiseworthy. It leads to making there average students more responsive and responsible. But please remember that there is hardly any control applied by federal govt on the governance of MIT. Now come to IITs, who made 50% reservation criterion for both faculty and students. Who appoints Chairman BOG of IIts, Who appoints Visitor nominees for faculty selection, and who sanctions grants for IITs. Even Chairman of one forum he calls one IIT director and asks them to reconsider the results where few students were failed. Now in the light of above facts still you holds the same view, that I doubt.
Here IIts are certainly the best and they witnessed minimum systemic erosion despite heavy pressure from Govt and society. There is scope of improvements but it can not be brought in by passing such uncharitable and non serious remarks.

Siddhart Kapoor
29 May 2011

This is so true. Stop saying that India is lead by IIT'ian. Students go for IIT just to earn money no reserch and so do the Teachers. This stupid IIT has dramatically set up a kind of viral fever among Indian student. Parents want there kid to grow up an become a IIT'ian or a Engineer 'that it. They want 99% ilers at there home else you are nothing 'huh. Please people can you give us some good and valuable example of a reserch work done in past 60 years which had have really helped a common person or a community. Please dont give a stupid examples to hold your views. India need to change a mind set if they want to see growing India.

Renu Gupta
28 May 2011

there may not be world class faculty in the IITs. But what is bieng done to attract that talent. there is no dearth of talent. if you pay salaries and perks at constant rates to all teachers and no freedom of executing His/ her talent, how can you expect the highly talented stuff.

Ramachandran N
27 May 2011

Hat off in calling a spade a spade. The fact is a fact.
If IITs are like this, ( I too am a product of IITB) how can lower level institutions have quality research outputs?
Our focus must to national/regional/local developmental ones. We are capable of that much only.
Of course, there are a few exceptions!

Aditya Tiwari
27 May 2011

i am not agreed with jairam ramesh,our nation prof,of iit and iim are having very good skills in his profession.thats why india is growing country,if they dont teach,our india is never reach in this position.we should to respect our prof.

Dr NKSharma
27 May 2011

many of the IITs were setup in India with aid from Western countires. Donor countries wanted to suck out best talent of India to improve their economies. These countries have been successful in their objectives and our succesive govts. did nothing to reverse brain drain over all these years.
Look at China. They are now offering reputed Chinese profs. the same salary they get in USA and same research facilities and complete freedom to do research.
If a professor in a degree college in Meerut gets same salary as one in an IIT how does the govt. expect to attarct good teachers in IITs.
Has nay politician globally ever made a statement ever that universities in their countries are bad. I leave it to jaiRam ramesh to poder over his statement and c as to whose cause is he serving.
During last 60 years, if any Union education minister provided respectability to University profs., it was Prof Nurul Hasan only who provided grades higher to Univ profs. as compared to IAS.

Chittaranjan
27 May 2011

Honourable minister may be right in saying that in India, we do not have any world class institution. But saying alone that we have world class students and not faculty is not true. Logically, if a world class student enters into an institution where no body is there to either enhance or keep his class at the same level, how come he can become a world class after graduating. So, it is the administrative policies, environment, academic system, and faculty quality that brings out best in a student.

Dr. Navita Nathani
26 May 2011

I surprised to read the statement given by hon'ble minister Jairam Ganesh. How can one comment on the leading institutes of nation without any statistics or data. Being a minister rather than pulling the legs he should introduce something to evaluate the whole system. with these statements he is spreading the message that there is no value of teacher in student's life. It is obvious that if our teacher's are not world class how can we expect the same from our student?

M.S. Gopinathan
26 May 2011

Ministerial doublespeak is nothing unusual, but when it comes in the same breath,
it is noteworthy. Jairam Ramesh says, " Governement institutions cannot attract world class talent .... IIT attracts world class students".
It is nobody's case that IIT faculty, or IIT students for that matter, are world class, in the sense that no world shaking scientific or technological breakthroughs have come from these Institutions. Nor are we world class in other spheres like sports, to cite a topical example. We are, of course, at the top of the world in corruption and even in environmental pollution.
The problem with our top educational and research institutions is not where the funds come from: Government or private. Problems are elsewhere. Note that pathbreaking discoveries come from Universities abroad which are largely funded by the Government. Of course, it is a good idea to persuade the Industrial houses to open their purse strings for education and research. But to claim that privately run labs would produce world class science is another example of ministerial misspeak.

s agarwal
26 May 2011

110% true

Vikram Karve
26 May 2011

Jairam Ramesh is correct. It is the students who have earned IITs and IIMs their reputations by reaching top positions in the industry in India and abroad. Have any of the faculty won international awards like the Nobel Prize? The comments made by Jairam Ramesh and Kapil Sibal are worthy of introspection and IIT and IIM faculty must view these in the right positive spirit for self improvement. Teaching is a noble profession and dedicated teachers do not run after money, therefore it is not proper to link salary with the quality of teaching. Professors are quite highly paid nowadays and enjoy relaxed lifestyle and excellent perks as compared to the industry or government jobs and do not have to undergo the same job stress and deadlines and Professors retire at 65, even 70, which is a big advantage. It is strange to hear Professors of today comparing their salaries with their students who join the industry. If Professors are so concerned about money why don't they quit teaching and join the industry? IIT and IIM are run on tax payers money and must deliver value to the tax payers and Indian citizens by providing proper education which benefits the nation and not merely to send students abroad or to work in MNCs.

Dr H.K.Vardia
26 May 2011

We need to look in to the situation more wholesomely. Hon. Minister whatever said was more blunt in the remarks. Which should have been that, we need to upgrade our best institutions to world class best institution. Don't we need to introspect in to this? Dear minister, whether we have made sufficient efforts for that. I wish rather than commenting and pulling legs, we must devise ways and means to make these institutions world class. No student can be world class if the teacher is not world class. Don't forget Sir, you are insulting your own teachers by saying so. You are at such a position where you have a say to formulate policies and implement them. So, please don't waste time in commenting, rather plan something which could not be done earlier.
The nation is looking towards you for such actions and not gossips.

Ramesh Singh
25 May 2011

I totally agree with the comments and observations of Honorable Minister Jairam Ramesh but who should be blamed! This is first time, any Minister has dared to comment! Most of the time the Ministers never bothered and they go with the recommendations of the Scientific Advisors or their Secretaries. Is there any incentive for “research”?, do we have a good “award” and “reward” system in the country?. Same old people or their “followers” are sitting in decision making system. In the country, we have system,“you pat my back and I will pat your back”. In IITs system the young people try to do some research and publish papers to get promotion as Professor, once they become Professor not much incentive they see to continue their research. Even we do not have much incentives to SSB award recipients, once they get award they fulfill their dreams and start looking for administrative positions as a Vice-Chancellor or Director and look for fellowships of academies so that they get extra Rs. 15000 per month as part of the salary. Is there any accountability of these SSB award recipients or Academies Fellows, whether they continue their good research for which they were honored?.

This is right time when we should have open debate to find out ways and means to improve our system so that faculty members who are excellent in doing research continue their work without caring for administrative positions. Why Professors who do good research work do not care much about the administrative positions in American universities? why in our country! This is only due to attractions in our country, even the young or senior faculty members start running to these administrators for getting small favor. We must try to improve “award/reward” system and promotion policy and also we must ask the Faculty members of IITs to earn their own money for atleast during summer vacation through research projects. The present system is whether you spend time in your office or stay home you will get your salary!

I strongly believe that we must try to change our system so that we attract “good” people, and make the system so that they stay and realize that they have good working environment. But unfortunately this is not the case, in most of the institutions, when a person gives his frank and honest opinion the administrations do not like and the environment becomes hostile and good people leave their institutions!

drmkk
25 May 2011

1.I fully endorse the views expressed by Dr. Sunita Chatarjee. 2. There should be some set criteria universally followed to get the label of 'world class'. 3. When this type of comments are expressed by people in authority, there is nothing wrong in introspecting oneself in terms of his/her contributions made, beneficial /translated to the mass globally in general and India in particular. 4. As pointed out by Dr. Shantanu Dey, while recruiting caste politics, regional bias and so on (including reservation) should be stopped and only those who have passion for teaching/research and merit should be made the sole criteria. 5. In India, a teaching faculty especially Researcher should keep in mind about the Investment that is made from Tax payer's money. Therefore research projects/areas should be prioritized based on problems of our country and solutions (as a spin off of research problems) should reach the common man. 6. It's pointless compare our findings with that of western/ European data in the name of 'world class'.

Dr. Jitendra Sharma
25 May 2011

What is the definition of the term 'higher education'? All the University affiliated Teachers' Colleges in Rajasthan associated with the teaching of the University degrees like Ph.D. in Education, M.Ed., and B.Ed. are under School Education. The teachers in these Colleges are school teachers. All this is being done in total violation of the Regulations made by the University Grants Commission (UGC) and the National Council for Teacher Education (NCTE) - both are regulatory and statutory bodies framed by the Acts of Parliament. Will Mr Jairam Ramesh take up this issue with his friend Mr Ashok Gehlot, the CM of Rajasthan?

Dr. Jitendra Sharma
25 May 2011

I'd refrain myself from commenting on the issue if the faculty in the IITs and IIMs are of quality or not. I for a moment believe that they are of perfect quality. The issue then is that why this question has been raised only in terms of the IITs and the IIMs. What about the faculty in our Universities, Engineering Colleges, and the Medical Colleges? Why so much hullaballoo on this comment of Mr Ramesh? Do all the students of India study in these few IITs and IIMs? I write to you from Jodhpur where the news has appeared this morning in the newspapers that a Neurophysician named Dr. Sanjiv Mathur was presented before the inspection team of the Medical Council of India headed by Dr. Padma as one of the three faculty members while the fact of the matter is that Dr. Mathur works in Goyal Hospital, Jodhpur ( a private Hospital). The newspaper report says that Dr. Mathur was issued an appointment letter appointing him as an Assistant Professor on the ad hoc basis. His name plate showing him as an Assistant Professor has also been shown hanging in the photograph that has appeared in the Rajasthan Patrika. Dr. Mathur's statement in the newspaper says that he has not yet joined while Dr. Goyal, the Director of Goyal Hospital says that Dr. Mathur is still working with his hospital and has not yet resigned.
This is just to show that the MCI is being duped by the Government. It is also the Government that runs the affairs in the IITs and IIMs.

A.Ramakrishna
25 May 2011

we fully agree with minister's comments. unless the pay structure revised to attract top class researchers, it is difficult to attract good faculty

Prof. S N Upadhyay
25 May 2011

Comments of Shri Jairam Ramesh about faculty and research at IITs and IIMs are unfortunate and simply not true. Faculty in all these institutions is excellent and that is why world class students get attracted to and produced by IIts and IIMs. Research contribution is also commendable, however, it requires same level of faith and support ( not only funds) as the academic researchers ijn other countries enjoy.

Only in India, in the name of freedom of speech, one is free to make any comment. However, such comments from persons holding key positions in Government need to be discouraged.

MUKESH KUMAR MISHRA
25 May 2011

This is a personal view of ramesh we can not say this type of remark on IIM
-IIT faculty because they selected through a proper channel, because most of the students are not so good in quality,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

manoj kamra
25 May 2011

Really Mr.Jairam Ramesh (alumani of IIT Mumbai) deserves to be HRD minister as well as Science&Technology minister rather than our myopic Mr.Kapil sibal (having no scientific background nothing to do with science&technology) always STRESSING TO PROLIFERATE MORE AND MORE GARBAGE ENGG COLLEGES,UNIVERSITIES ----without placing maximum limit on number of attempts of B.E./non-disclosure of attempts in B.E.degree as in Medical education

AICTE since formation in 1945&HRD ministry till date placed no limit over maximum number of permissible attempts of faculty in engineering i.e. only 60% sufficient irrespective of number of attempts during B.E. Such attempter faculty have also intruded in IITs also.

So IITs are flooded with attempters churning out M.Tech./PhDs . If IIT is really serious over raising standards of research(as Hon'ble minister remarked), it should place MAXIMUM LIMIT ON ATTEMPTS/BACKPAPERS OF B.E. for admission in M.Tech./PhD Or maximum years taken in completing AMIE.

Thanks Hon'ble Minister Mr.Jairam Ramesh for having deeply meditated over dismal state of IITs now.

T.S. Chandra
25 May 2011

It was very shocking and painful to hear the derogatory comments of the Honorable Minister who it appears is an alumni of IIT to the public media. One percent cream of the student population of India enter the IITS, no doubt. This is a population of youngsters who know how to study ,who are capable of hard work and academic excellence and have a sharp understanding and intellect .As they are so clever and intelligent ,the task of teaching such bright students is an equally challenging task.When a IIT faculty goes to teach a class of such bright students the teacher must have a very good grasp of the subject and also awareness of the hot topics of the field in order to answer the umpteen questions raised by these youngsters , enthuse them and pull them up to greater heights . Therefore if the faculty of IITs and IIMS are attracting such brightest students of India to join IITs or IIMs , one can understand what a high level of intellectual capacity these faculty must be possessing to manage such students. In other words it needs a very clever person to manage some very clever trainees under him.The intellectual strength and capacity of the IIT faculty must therefore by simple logic be much higher than that of the students the faculty teaches or guides for research. Alas ! because of the meager pay scales provided by the Ministry to these faculty and the quiet academic nature of their duties confined to labs and class rooms , the public does not come to know of their talents.While the faculty earn a parsley maximum pay of 79000 per month that too after many years of service and with very few perks ,the students trained by them straightaway earn not less then 2-3 lakhs per month in the outside job market within 2-3 years.Because of such cushy jobs and money power , I think some of these alumni like the minister in the present case are high headedly kicking the ladder that enabled them to climb to the positions they hold today . While the diamond (student ) shines, the diamond cutter (faculty ) has to bear such insults from the honorable ministers.If the IITS are closed than the society will know whether they missed the diamond in their hands. Why is it that these bright students do not want to join other Institutions if the faculty is better than IITs or IIMs? Why is it that these private institutions drive their student very pathetically to do projects outside their institute and especially are sending them to IITs for their research projects . Is there no place better than IIT ? All these facts speak for themselves that the IITs and IIMs are the very best that one can aspire for in this country flooded with corrupt government ministers. The idea of starting institutions on public -private basis like marine diversity etc without involving institutions like IITs in such research already is a forerunner of events like another 2G scam. It is better that the government administrators do not heap insults on the already injured IIT faculty who hold the torch of knowledge. If IITs are demoralized by such unkind remarks and loose talk , they are undoing the work of such great respected leaders like Pandit Nehru. One cannot put together these institutions and it will be the end like Humpty -Dumpty could not be put together again. Bigger scams in education and academics is being instigated by these politicians , after the IT and 2G scams .

U C Srivastava
25 May 2011

Its personal view of ramesh we can not say this type of remark on IIM
-IIT faculty because they selected through a proper channel in which
some mamber from goverment body so there is also a question on it .

Dr. Ajay Somkuwar
25 May 2011

Agree with honorable Minister that our Institution ...etc are not world class
but what are the affort to be done to improve that ?????
is our whole system does not require to modify ?/
yes socially, econmically and above all politically also
we respect honorable minister's statement and hope they will initiate some good effort to correct or chanange according to world class status

Anupama Krishnamurthy
24 May 2011

Clever Hon'ble Minister Jairam Ramesh! He knows theres always some truth in such statements and what better way to hit the limelight once again than bashing the country's white elephants - one striking thing though: IITs ARE a "government setup" and the Hon'ble Minister must accept they are attracting "the best young talent" at the UG level - how come?

S.N. Sinha
24 May 2011

Minister is right in saying that IITs and IIMs are not world class institutions. Well, there is no way they can be! No institution can be world class if the Government meddles in the affairs of the institutions. IITs are autonomous only in name. The actual fact is that it is the Government which decides about what courses IITs should teach; it is the Government which decides the admission procedure, the level of papers in the admission test, number of students that should be admitted, so on and so forth. So much so, that now the government advises how many Ph.D.s should be produced in a year! It is the government which holds the purse strings and there is no financial independence at all. In March 2011, the government suddenly decided that the contingency amount admissible to M.Tech./Ph.D. students be discontinued w.e.f. 1.4.2010!!! Does the minister know that the IITs have not yet received the grants for the current financial year even though it is end of May? Does the minister know that IITs have not been able to purchase a single thing during the last two months because of the resulting financial crunch? Does the minister know that IITs have become just another government department and have to purchase sophisticated equipment on the basis of L-1, although it might be worthless? Does the minister know that all the IITs have an acute shortage of faculty and, on top of that, the class strengths have gone up 54% resulting in an increased work load on the faculty? For attracting world class faculty, you have to provide a type of research atmosphere, work satisfaction and academic freedom that is prevailing in the so-called world class institutions. Have we been able to do that in our Institutes? Indians researchers in USA, UK, Europe are able to produce world class research because of academic freedom and an invigorating environment that is made available to them, while an Indian Professor has to waste a considerable amount of time to fight the system even for purchasing consumable items required for his research!! If one wants to kill the research potential of person who is doing well abroad, the only thing that you have to do is to somehow bring him back to India. Us Indians are strong believers in "quantity" and not in "quality" and that is what we are producing as is evident by the large number of technical institutions and new Universities that have proliferated during the last ten years. Who bothers whether these institutes and Universities have the required faculty and infrastructure? Who bothers whether the students produced by these institutes are employable or not?

So far as the quality of students is concerned, if good talent is not nurtured by the IITs, after four years it would become junk. So IIT faculty must at least be putting up some effort in nurturing these young minds if they are doing well in the current world scenario!! On the other hand, what effort is being put up by the powers that be except for opening new Institutes North and South, East and West without bothering about whether the required faculty and infrastructure is in place or not!!

Sunita Thakur
24 May 2011

Given the funds and salaries...Faculty is world class
by sumit bose (View MyPage) on May 23, 2011 05:27 PM | Hide replies

Given the funds for research that you make available and the pitiable salaries that you offer to the IIT/IIM faculties in comparison to what their counterparts get, and given the challenges that they face of working out of India, I think they have done a commendable job. Their research output may not be anywhere comparable to what is produced by US/Chinese univs..but is the investment/salaries/incentives in higher education comparable? How do you expect then? Whatever these faculties have till now produced is on their own zeal and going against the system that always tries to pull them down. Have you forgotten Dr. Subhas Mukherjee, who though NOT an IIT/IIMian but neverthless was Indian and is the best example of how Indian system works? IIT/IIM too have many such faculties who produce at their own expense (could have earned millions if they were in the US/EU) but have received little support from Ramesh's ministries and Indian system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But Politicians wants technology transfer where they will have the percentage...like defense deals...BOFORS

Prabhakar Waghodekar
24 May 2011

t is simply mockery of Indian governance and Democracy. If a Controlling Officer/Authority criticizes his/her own/Department working, we praise the the Authority with such words "He is clean. He honestly accepts the committed mistakes" and next day we forget it just to repeat the same mistake in future!The World Top Most Universities reporting has been clearly indicating IITs/IIMs are not world class institutes as none of them appear among the first 300 lot. India is world class country without world class education. The causes "Chalata Hai!", faculty recruitment: merit on the back seat, offer him/her PhD as s/he is recommended by so and so, etc. Can you imagine one of the IITs offered PhD in Humanities to an Officer having Engineering Post Graduate Degree (do not make a mistake to see the thesis, you will cry), one of the VCs pressurized (to be a VC) IIT to offer good remarks for PhD thesis... Who are responsible? Why to pamper students saying these are brilliant students and no credit to faculty? These so called brilliants have promoted parallel economy in the country depriving millions others in the country. Should not we be focused in the national interests? India has hardly 400 universities while Japan and US have over 4000 and 3800 universities respectively.

Sudhakar SK
24 May 2011

Jairam Ramesh is right;
our IIT and IIM's standards have
gone down.

If they were made to hear
lecture from Lallu Prasad Yadav,
MKS Narendra Modi
and
Nishit Kumar;
one can understand thier standards.

Yes, definately we need to
role-up our sleeves and set things right
by scalling up by
getting best of the brains in
teaching.

MBA education also has become a
money minting business
with Ambani's and other
scruplous business houses making
education as profitable business.

Rajan Sodankur
24 May 2011

Ramesh's govt is responsible for the state of affairs:

It is the central govt soaked neck deep in corruption and scandals and that has Ramesh as Minister is responsible for the state of affairs. What is the level of autonomy that IIT, I.I.M., I.I.Sc enjoy as compared to what other world class varsities enjoy? With all these indirect controls and influences of govt for quota for less qualified students not based on merit, regulation of fees beyond practical limits, non-transparent research proposals, funding and outcomes are responsible? How many reports of research funded by public money at IITs, IIMs, IIScs are put online for greater good of the public and other competing researchers? Only a handful of influential faculty grab the lion's share of public funding for research.

MM V Rao
24 May 2011

World class facilities for scientiic research and world class faculty exist in several world class universities and institutes of technology - like Stanford, Caltech, MIT. Many of their faculties have Nobel laureates and are proud to list Nobel prize winners who are their alumni. This culture is missing, and worse, this fact itself does not seem to matter to us as people or our govt. The culture of research and development is itself a travesty - more a routine drudgery than anything for achieving great results. China with even a slightly larger humongous population than ours, produces Nobel researchers more often and of course, research discoveries and technologies which are at the back of hardware industries (meaning, as distinct from software) have become relevant in China. India as long as its youth is given to frivolties like cricket and bollywood and is even nonchalant towards or even unappreciative of, its own great men and its great traditions, has to make momentous changes in education. This does not seem likely in a foreseeable future, though, if present trends are any guidance. Our research activities continue to be obscured by too much red tape and regional politics, to cite what the latest Nobel laureate (in chemistry) of Indian origin says. China boasts of its five millennia old culture - which drives its economic boom to world power status, even in its diplomatic activities. It is doubtful whether our diplomats have any asset other than English speaking.

Sunita Chaterjee
24 May 2011

Selection of IIT faculty membership is not something which is ever done in transparent manner. Every and I repeat every faculty member of the so-called IITs is selected when they are doing their Ph.D. or post-doc abroad thru their respective god-fathers, no matter how hopeless and worthless they are. An eye-wash type interview is taken in India which is disgusting and humiliating for the best qualified persons from India. This is the case with all IITs and DST/CSIR labs. Only people who have gone thru this process can appreciate this issue. IIT-Students will hardly realize the gravity of the situation through which real worthless candidates are brought as faculties. And this is the system going on since the NCL and IIT/kharagpur were established. It is a national shame that we have nothing to feel good about the "esteemed" faculty of IITs and CSIR/RRL labs.

Rajeev Kumar
24 May 2011

Mr. Ramesh,
To achieve world class in research, you (the Government) should devise an effective incentive system. Incentives begin with good salary and should be based on performance. Academic research is not a 9-5 job. It takes a great level of hardwork, dedication and sacrifice over several years to work on one's Masters, doctoral degree and research. Do you think that a paltry renumeration of Rs. 39,000/month (typical for an Asst. Prof with a PhD and 3-year experience) is enough ? Do you expect the faculty to donate their well-being and prosperity for the sake of your (government's) incompetence while billions are stashed elsewhere ? What an irony ?
Moreover, in all developed countries, the academic research is incubated through government grants and research programs (e.g. National Academy of Sciences). Funding does not mean "free lunch and giveaways" but a business model for academic institutions to cater public's short term and long term needs in return for their funding needs. Is there a system here ? Rather our system is constantly meddled by these "half-baked", "clue-less" politicians. Until you fix these structural problems, why can’t you SHUT UP ? We don’t need your callous rambles.

P. Muthusamy
24 May 2011

Government funding to these institutions is a tiny fraction of its annual budget (IITs get about 100 crores, which is minuscule compared to 953,231 crore government expenditure).

That said, I agree with the minister Ramesh's point that the faculty at these elite institutions are not world class. That does not mean we should destroy IITs, but instead we should strive to improve the quality of the faculty there. I also agree that there should be a penalty on students who get subsidized education and decide to leave the country.

Kumarapuram Sadasivan
24 May 2011

From statement of Jairam Ramesh and his colleagues, including Sonia and MMS, on range of issue including corruption, would seem to suggest that they are opposition. When the fact is that not only have been in government for seven years, but have ruled India for fifty odd years. There is a saying that they are in power but don’t know how to govern. These imbecilic statement from party members, that too cabinet ministers in power apart from sapping public morale also demonstrate lack of creating thinking, poor administrative skills and inability to utilize available levers of power to implement reforms required to improve poorly performing sectors. This hand waving is truly shameless exercise in futility and needs to be resisted.

Kumarapuram Sadasivan
24 May 2011

PPP to LOOT and Bankrupt India by the Globalist Oligarchs:

The UPA is using "EXCUSES" to usher in PPP in ALL Fields.This is the trick of the Globalist to convert the Indian Democratic Republic into an Oligarchy where the middle class and the poor become SLAVES of the RICH Globalist ELITE Oligarchs,who will Bankrupt the nation by STEALING and transferring the National Wealth to themselves.
Please google for "PPP".

Shantanu Dey
24 May 2011

NOT ALL IIT STUDENTS ARE WORLD CLASS !!!
Similarly, ALL FACULTIES ARE NOT WORLD CLASS .....

Remember, 5 fingers are not equal... There are some favoritism during selection of faculties based on regional politics (IITKGP, IIMC prefer BANGALI), Caste Poltics(IITM prefers Tamil Brahmin), Directors preference, External members' preference, inbreeding, and so many unwanted factors are there for non-deserving candidates to enter these elite institutes...So, it will not be world class...Fortunately, Govt. has not forced strictly SC/ST/OBC quota in these elite institute..Otherwise, it would be HELL for students....

Do not expect 100% world class teachers by paying them Clerks's salary of so called WORLD CLASS countries...

GOVT. OF INDIA SPENT LEAST AMOUNT IN HIGHER EDUCATION IN PAST 60 YEARS....

If IIT students were world class, then all IITs might be WORLD CLASS now....
But no world class ENGG. GRADUATES STAY IN INDIA WITH POOR SALARY...
THEY NEED WORLD CLASS SALARY... CAN GOVT. IMPLEMENT WORLD CLASS SALARY IN IIM/IIT to make it WORLD CLASS ????
to enter

Satyanarayanan
24 May 2011

I am not surprised by this comment, coming from an IIT BTech of the
1975 vintage. That was the time when the IIT undergrad was just
being recognized as the best slave-labour material in American grad
schools and hence his popularity back home was rising, but at the
same time, the IITs were largely equipping themselves with faculty
who had BTechs/MTechs from elsewhere and without PhDs, so the general
feeling was that the student was superior to the faculty (this was,
sadly, acknowledged by many faculty members themselves). The whole
thing about comparing student versus faculty intelligence levels is
in itself sad, mad, and bad, in the first place. That apart, the
problem is that most of those belonging to that generation of IITians
have never offered themselves an opportunity in the present day to
correct their old perception, and hence it has largely remained
fossilized. This is the problem with having an undergraduate
programme as the flagship programme of an institution. We end up
getting flagged by these guys! We are counting on the success of
immature teenagers for our success, and when (not if) their success
goes to their head, they unfortunately remain immature long past their teenage!

Ashutosh
24 May 2011

Being an insider I could not disagree with Jairam's comment. I agree that we have not matched the standards of MIT, UCL or Harvard in terms of research output. At the same time let us also agree that this is what we have in India in the name of 'best'. Therefore, if the IIT/IIM teachers are considered mediocre then we will also have to agree that we Indians are mediocre. With regard to IIMs, I'll say that in spite of being academically very meritorious (look at the academic background of IIM A/B/C faculty) they do not do any research. Somehow, being a faculty at one of the IITs I also do not subscribe to the argument that IIT grads are the only meritorious students in India. If we buy this argument then we will also have to believe that in a country of 120Cr. we produce only 8000 bright students every year. India is obviously not so poor in terms of intellectual capabilities. You will hear comments like, ‘IIT grads are the best’ from people like Jairam who believe on such wrong believes. I have taught students whom I’ll call as ‘average but trained students’. Obviously, we get a large number of gifted students. Compare 1st year students of IITs, Jadavpur, Anna University, NIT Trichy – you will have to struggle to find some difference. Compare the final year students in these institutions you will find a lot of difference. So 4 year stay at IITs makes a difference in one’s life. The difference comes not from class rooms only but also from the environment. I’ll call IITs rather as an ecosystem of learning.
Coming to research, ask any good researcher in science and engineering on the best place to carry out their research in India – a majority of them will answer the IITs (obviously IISc will be more preferred destination because of their research focus). This is in spite of the fact that IITs were traditionally focusing on the undergraduates. They have started giving some serious thought to postgraduate and doctoral studies only in the beginning of this century. And the results of this focus shift are encouraging. Now, you see a large number of publications in various international journals and patents. However, still the research in IITs may be called as routine research and it will take some 10/15 years to actually do some great research. What IITs expect is cooperation from the government bodies and the industry (not just funding). A challenging task will be to attract good faculty especially in the areas of social sciences. Believe me, 15 years from now, IIT grads will be equally proud of the brand ‘IIT’ as well as its faculty.

manoj kamra
24 May 2011

In contrast to engineering , PGI chandigarh(top medical institute) does not permit to appear in PrePG/PreDM exam for any doctor HAVING AVAILED EXTRA ATTEMPT.
Whereas Our IITs M.Tech/PhDs students are flooded with attempters(having several backpapers during B.E.). IITs having crunch of students have been accepting ATTEMPTERS (with no upper limit maximum number of attempts of B.E.)
Mr. JaiRam Ramesh should give credit to only graduate students of IIT/IIMs as attempters students pursuing PG/PhDs are almost of same category as of faculty .

SK Mishra
24 May 2011

I have been saying this for about three decades - since I left IIT - which I found not worthwhile to stick to any longer. But who listens!

Sundar
24 May 2011

As a country we need to be ambitious enough to accept to have a world class institute. World class means, most if not all the faculty are scientists or engineers who work on contemporary research and recognized as one of the top researchers in the world. If we introspect honestly, on average most of the faculty are at best "WORLD FAMOUS in INDIA". no one knows them beyond their institutions. Time has come to HIRE a management consultant to evaluate our system and come up with recommendations to maximize efficiency. Evaluating ourselves about our performance would end up, as always, scratching each others back.

Dr T.K.RAJA
24 May 2011

I fully concur with the views of Mr Jairam Ramesh on IITs and IIMs. If they are really world class why they are not listed in the top 100 universities of the world universities? IIT faculties may attribute hundreds of reasons for not being listed in world's top 100 universities, but they are all not convincing. IITs are known for B.Tech education only and not for research, leave alone worthwhile research. This B.Tech education guarantees the degree holder to go to US easily. In short our IITs have produced graduates with tax-payers money to supply world class graduates to US job market. The IIT education system is elitist in nature and only students from upper class families find their way into the system through expensive coaching centres in the country. It should be noted that the majority of the faculties in IITs are themselves the products of our university system or from foreign universities. Unfortunately in India a PhD from a third rate foreign university is valued more in the recruitment process than a PhD from Indian universities with good research record. According to a recent estimate, our IITs are operating with 40% of the faculty strength. The remaining 60% is lying vacant because qualified faculties are unavailable. If this is so what about the 40% incumbent faculty which is not world class? In short IITs were created with the tax money of Ayah Rams and Gaya Rams and they should serve the aam aadhmi of the country first before venturing into world class status.

A M Dsouza
24 May 2011

I congratulate Mr Jairam Ramesh for his truthful comments on the state of premier institutions. He has called a spade a spade and his observations are correct. What has happened to grant able institutions today. Bright students come because the fees are low and they excel because the students are good. The so called faculty takes the credit for the good results.
The Government must encourage scholars/ researchers to take up teaching assignments rather than appoint persons with so called required qualifications but no aptitude for teaching.
One can imagine the state of IITs & IIMs ..... what is the state of other institutions (Includes all types of Universities)

Gurudas Nulkar
24 May 2011

Jairam Ramesh will achieve nothing by such statements. What is his definition of world class? What research is he seeking?
He says "Govt can never attract talent .." - does government pay the best in class to attract them? Why should talented persons join here when they are offered far better remuneration and work conditions? If Jairam Ramesh wants this to change, he should first show actions which will lead to the change.
"World class Research ..." - do you need more men on the moon or technology that will reach and impact the bottom of the pyramid? Can research alone change our country or is it's implementation the job of governance? How many inventions of IIT students has the government diffused into the society?
"Our students are great; not faculty .." - is this his opinion or has his office conducted a 'research' with 10000 alumni of IITs?
"So we want to think differently. We have to think differently..." - Will he also talk about actions? Or will it be limited to "thinking differently" ?

Jairam Ramesh should know better than make such destructive criticism comments. Mr. Ramesh - Fix it if you think you know the problem and have a solution. If Mr. Ramesh cant fix it, then give your solution to those who can fix it. Making such public statements will only give him applause, and a re-election.

Raghbendra Jha
24 May 2011

If the IIT's and IIM's have this calibre then what shall be say about faculty in regular universities? But, there is the further point that Government intervention in the past is partly to blame for the poor state of research in many Indian institutions. In the case of economics, for instance, it is better for one's career to become sycophants of important bureaucrats and policymakers than to do serious research. In the past bureaucrats have encouraged this behaviour and many so called famous economists in India would not amount to much if they were to be evaluated by global research standards.

Dev N Pathak
24 May 2011

High time that we ask as to what is the meaning of the term 'world class', and try deconstructing the illusive components of it including the hangover of the colonial experiences in the post-colonial nation state. when the world is fluid and the class is subject to redefinitiion, beyond the theoretical limits postulated y Marx and Weber, it is rather misleading usage and a mere term for a glib mouth.
yes, the quality of research at the institutions of repute in India is a question of concern. but then, the direction of this question is not clear. don't we need researches to be independent of the tried and tested categories handed down to us through ages. in that sense, yes we are not seeking for quality. also, the quality is often weighed by comparing the researches in Indian institutions with that in western-european-american institutions. is this the right criteria to adjudge the quality? yes, comparison gives a chance to see beyond the visible and architects opportunity to progress reflexively. however, it may also be terribly blinding, limiting in our insights, and perpetuating an aping syndrome.
there is a need of discourse on this issue, before our glib-talkers hijack it to perpetuate misleading taken for granted assumptions.

Kumar
24 May 2011

This type of sweeping comments from the someone in a position of authority show his insensitivity towards functioning of institutions. Can he understand if the teachers are not good then why the best students flock to these insituttes and not to all 3000 private engineering colleges that the country has now? Can he name even ten teachers in those colleges who have written any research papers of any interest. The fact is that in India whatever little quality research output is there, it is only from IITs. See the surveys done and published in leading research magazines. One person calling IITs world class and another third class does not help anything.

Dr.M.RAMAKRISHNAN
24 May 2011

I wish everybody should accept this. We should never take it as an insult. We indians have to do a lot to become world class. If we stop pulling legs of others and genuinely encourage good people , we can achieve this.

Sundar
24 May 2011

At last, some one in the government openly admits the truth. As long as there is no accountability from top to bottom, these institutes can never become world class. Head of these institutions are chosen based on perception rather than them having any plan for the institutions and their demonstrated ability to lead a dynamic faculty and high quality students. Time has come to relook at the selection of faculty, heads of Institutions and also the autonomy in terms of financial and administrative. Accountability should be defined, by means of management. These institutes has to go through the evaluation through some management consultants.

Ashok Vohra
24 May 2011

I congratulate Mr Jairam Ramesh for his plain speak. He has called a spade a spade. I fully endorse the ministers observations.
Infact the quality of teaching and research work, if any, of the faculty in the Departments of Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS) is dismal. Many of the members do not publish anything for years. They get higher salaries than the University teachers for teaching just under-graduate courses. The quality of doctoral guidance needs much to be said.
The government should make a special survey of the teaching and research in the HSS departments of all the IIT's.

Ashok Vohra
24 May 2011

I congratulate Mr Jairam Ramesh for his plain speak. He has called a spade a spade. I fully endorse the ministers observations.
Infact the quality of teaching and research work, if any, of the faculty in the Departments of Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS) is dismal. Many of the members do not publish anything for years. They get higher salaries than the University teachers for teaching just under-graduate courses. The quality of doctoral guidance needs much to be said.
The government should make a special survey of the teaching and research in the HSS departments of all the IIT's.

Vijay
24 May 2011

Its true that most of the faculty in IIT's are not world class. The institutions are prestigeous just because of their students. Most of the faculty are lazy and earning black money from sponsored projects by producing fake bills for un-purchased items such as chemicals, instruments and equipment.

Dr R K Singh
24 May 2011

I wish to congratulate Mr Jairam Ramesh for saying the truth: IITs & IIMs are good not because of research or quality faculty but because of world class students. Their brand name may sell for some more time till the quality private institutions come up in India.